my list of lists are better than your list
will this guy never stop with the lists? the man responsible for the much talked-about/crapped-upon list of overrated writers has just released another slideshow—this one of the 17 most innovative university presses & the books you need from them. which, of course, follows up the 17 lit mags that *might* survive the internet, and the 15 feisty small presses (& the books you’ll need from them, too). makes me wish i got paid by the bullet point, too.
To be fair, and not trying to be snarky, but linking to them and getting people to go to them only encourages more list making. After the explosion of his first incendiary list, his editors probably gave him a raise and said, “Keep doing that. That thing with the lists that keeps getting linked and traffic and making us money. Yes. That.”
Also, in fairness, seems like quite a bit of research goes into the articles. Yes, articles. He expands on the ideas he presents, so they aren’t just a bulleted list. (Although he does repeat himself – some of the University Presses are also on the small press list. On another note: What’s wrong with being snarky? Isn’t this blog called “bark” and not “woof, woof, pant,beg,wag?”
I’ll fully admit after reading the overrated writers list, I chose to forego caring about any subsequent lists by Shivani, so I can’t really attest to how well or not well researched his other lists/articles have been.
As for snark, it’s not a matter of ass-kissery that I clarified my anti-snarkery. It’s just that rarely does snarkiness ever actually add anything to a conversation nor move a conversation forward, which is what I tend to be more interested in.
Here’s an idea – read the content before commenting. Knowing what you are discussing is a great way to move a conversation forward. Along those line, then:
Did anyone notice that there were very few fiction books on the university press book lists? Most of them were political/economic commentary and analysis. Seems like there’s a market for social novels. Super Sad True Love Story and Jonathan Franzen’s Freedom: A novel, come to mind. So,are fewer fiction writers writing social novels? Or are smaller presses not interested in publishing social fiction? Is anyone working on a social novel and if you are, would you consider sending the manuscript to a small university press? Would anyone working in a small university press consider publishing a social novel, or are the presses only interested in well-told contemporary affairs type books? I mean, everyone seems to hate corporate america, so where are all the Upton Sinclairs and Steinbecks, or is that style of fiction writing too pendantic? Or am I simply howling at the moon here?
I was commenting on the content in this specific post regarding Shivani’s lists and noting that the OP’s linking to them and driving traffic to them only encourages more lists. My comment was not referencing Shivani’s actual lists.
Therefore, I read the content before I commented on it. Were I commenting on Shivani’s lists, your “idea” would be valid. Since I wasn’t, your idea is moot.
It’s just that rarely does snarkiness ever actually add anything to a conversation nor move a conversation forward, which is what I tend to be more interested in.
I guess these aren’t your intentions in this instance.
This was my complaint about Shivani’s overrated writers list: there are ideas in his bulletpoint presentation that are worth discussing at greater length, but he can’t be bothered (or HuffPo isn’t interested in) to do that. It’s really a missed opportunity to write about the current state of literature and, instead, his posts tend to point to things without actually examining them with any depth.
Do you think the medium has anything to do with it? If he were writing an article in the New York Review of Books then he would have to state and argue his case more thoroughly. The fact that he is writing on a blog makes me think that the discussion and examination is up to the readers and commentators – since social media is more of an interactive medium. It also tends to utilize sensationalism and humor – I found it hilarious when he posted the sample sentences. That, and when he called Kakutani an enabler. I am glad he posts his lists, though. And it would be great if someone expanded on some of his lists in more detail. That someone would not be me mainly because I can’t commit to reading the entire works of William T. Vollman, just can’t do it. He’s so overrated.
Absolutely: the medium has everything to do with the lazy criticism. Each click generates a new ad to the right of the picture; each click generates revenue. He uses humor, but rarely cites a large chunk of texts or elaborates on his ideas, and yes, he allows the discussion and examination to be up to the readers – but isn’t he the supposed authority (if, after all, he’s writing the column)?
Social media should be about easy of delivery and connecting to ideas, not dumping the responsibility of thought and content on the reader. Shivani should know better and, in fact, he probably does, which is what makes it so maddening.
Lists are just so easy; if someone is as smart and well-read as Shivani is, couldn’t he provide us with something of more substance?
Oh, you are totally right about the traffic and the fact that Shivani really could provide us with something more substantive. Shivani writes lazy analysis because he can, and because the huffpost is intriguing candy. Seems like many sites have gone from lists to slideshow lists, so now the curious have to open a new page for every bullet. Frustrating to us, moneymaking for them. Guess we need to stop expecting more and we will end up less frustrated. Most times I just read the bullets and the headlines then go elsewhere for depth. The deepest site, probably, is Arts and Letters Daily, which, I just noticed, doesn’t have a single mention of any of Shivani’s lists. Maybe it did a while back but it seems like the guy is just so three weeks ago now.
There’s a link to an interesting piece from the Atlantic by Tim O’Brien about imagination in literature and stories. I think it’s worth reading.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/2009/08/telling-tails/7533/
That O’Brien essay is great. My buddy Bryan shot me a link to that a few months ago, and I’ve had it bookmarked ever since in case I need a reminder.
@Datsun. Haven’t read this before. Gracias!
De nada!
[...] 5,000 word screed entitled “is the mfa system corrupt and undemocratic?” after i complained about his reluctance to write a proper article, i tried to read this. i swear i really did. but [...]